Only Men Are Allowed To Be Perfect

[mysticalchild_isis]

Further Thoughts On Fandom Misogyny

You know, I'm disturbed by how often the male characters who treat people (especially women) like crap are the fandom darlings. They become the woobie who can do no wrong, because he's deep, he has layers, he's had bad things happen to him, he's misunderstood (especially by all those evil female characters). They often have huge communities devoted to them and metric tons of fic describing how wonderful and perfect they are. I'm not trying to criticize people for loving the characters they love. We all have our preferences, and deeply complex characters are interesting, and often feel more real.

What's really bothering me here are the gender politics that go on in fandom, and the double standard between the way female characters are treated versus male characters.

Let's take Tony DiNozzo from NCIS. Yes, I like him too. He is a complex character, he's had some wonderful moments of heroism, and he has struggled with some tough times in his life. But let's be honest: he's rude, he's dismissive, he bullies people, he objectifies women constantly, and he also tends to blame women ("it's always the wife "). Before anyone jumps in to accuse me of misunderstanding poor Tony, let's take a step back and deconstruct things a bit.

Take some time and really, truly, and honestly think about this: if Tony was instead a woman, let's say Tonia, what would you think about her? When she constantly objectified men while simultaneously dismissing and blaming them, how would you feel? When she bullied, belittled, and tormented Tim, would it seem just as funny (because, after all, she really does love Tim like a brother, right)?

There are some people who can truthfully say they'd love Tonia just as much as Tony, because it really is just about what they like about the characterization, regardless of gender. Tonia has probably also gained some brand new fans, who like her because she turns the dominant paradigm on its head- they'd enjoy watching a woman constantly objectifying men, and running roughshod over everyone.

But be honest: how many people would call Tonia a slut, a bitch, a whore, or a harpy? How dare that uppity woman torment poor little Timmy! Who does she think she is?

Let's try an opposite sort of example, and take Rose Tyler from Doctor Who. Rose consistently gets accused of being a Mary Sue, a selfish brat, a chav, and all sorts of other similarly offensive things. Imagine, however (honestly and deeply), if Rose was instead Ryan, played by someone like Bradley James. Let's say we now have a young man who doesn't have much in the way of education, but who pick things up pretty quickly, someone who's compassionate and friendly, and who loves the Doctor deeply. Ryan is suddenly reminding me a lot of a modern version of Jamie McCrimmon. How many people hate on Jamie, or call him a Gary Stu, or accuse him of being selfish for loving the Doctor? Just how many of the people who despise Rose would hate Ryan just as much?

Try taking any female character you dislike, and transforming them into a man... how does this change how you look at them? There are still going to be plenty of characters you dislike, regardless of gender, because they're still a cat hater, or a Yankees fan, or they look just like that math teacher who used to call you stupid. But how much time would you spend bashing them? Do you think there would be whole communities devoted to hating them? Would they be constantly vilified in fanfic?

But what does it matter if we bash female characters? They're only fictional, after all. I'll just say this- I don't think it's a good idea to spend a lot of time disparaging and despising women, even if they aren't real, as that's the sort of thing that can become a habit.

Yes, I'm oversimplifying things, being judgmental, and the people who see this are almost certainly the last people on earth who need to read it, but I had to throw it out there.

Thoughts, critiques, attacks, opinions?

You're very welcome to share this/link to it.

Comments

[vivian-lake.livejournal.com]

In almost every fandom I ever had, I liked female characters more (almost, since not all of my fandoms have women in them). Unless a woman canonically try to break canon gay couple (and, in some cases, succeeds) - but my reaction to the guy breaking canon lesbian couple would be just as furious.

>>>Just how many of the people who despise Rose would hate Ryan just as much?

Let's see... If Ryan had a black boyfriend he'd left for the Doctor (who'd treat said boyfriend horribly, by the way)? If his reaction to the Doctor acting a bit melodramatically after being slapped would be "Dont'be so retarded" (since Ryan is supposedly not very straight, "you're so gay" wouldn't sound as bad coming from him)? If the Doctor spend the next season comparing his next companion to Ryan who Would Know what to say and what to do and making said companion feel inferior? If some very vocal Ryan's fangirls continuously bashed the next companion(s) for not being Ryan?
Many would.
People might dislike Rose for the reasons that has nothing to do with her being a girl.
(For the record, I don't want to sleep with the Doctor or with any actor who ever played him, so I hope there won't be any accusations of me being "just jealous".)

[mysticalchild_isis]

I know gender isn't the only reason- that was my point here:

There are still going to be plenty of characters you dislike, regardless of gender, because they're still a cat hater, or a Yankees fan, or they look just like that math teacher who used to call you stupid.

I don't want to turn this into Rosewank, but I do have to express my opinion about the frequently stated point about Rose treating Mickey badly - which yes, she did- but Mickey was hardly a saint (he had some pretty distateful moments himself), and a lot of times, the "Rose treated Mickey like shit" comes off as another attack on a woman for not being perfect to her man.

[51stcenturyfox.livejournal.com]

...a lot of times, the "Rose treated Mickey like shit" comes off as another attack on a woman for not being perfect to her man.

Here from metafandom and I couldn't agree more.

I'm on the Torchwood side of things; I watched Torchwood and then Doctor Who, and then came online and found the fandom.

And then I discovered that there are comms devoted to hating on Gwen, and people who dislike Rose. And I thought, WHAT? Really? There are some things any character might do that we disagree with, but some people cut the female characters WAY less slack.

But what does it matter if we bash female characters? They're only fictional, after all. I'll just say this- I don't think it's a good idea to spend a lot of time disparaging and despising women, even if they aren't real, as that's the sort of thing that can become a habit.

That's well said and a lot better than I could have. Would you mind very much if I quoted you here and linked?

[mysticalchild_isis]

Would you mind very much if I quoted you here and linked?

Not at all- in fact I'd be happy to spread it around.

[51stcenturyfox.livejournal.com]

Thanks~!

Yeah, I've seen this in a lot of fandoms and it always surprises me. I watch the program and really dislike nobody (except villains). I might disagree with something someone DOES, but there are things my family does which I disagree with too, and that doesn't translate to HAET.

[iamashamed.livejournal.com]

But a lot of people wouln't dislike Ryan, as much as Rose, that's the problem. When it's a guy, some people find it way easier to sympatheize, than if it's a woman. This article is not directed at people who just dislike Rose and Gwen, but at the fact that many(not all) people wouln't if they were male.

And Mickey wasn't a saint either btw, even when Rose did treat him badly; he was pretty clingy himself.

[phaetonschariot.livejournal.com]

Only two of those examples are things Ryan did, though, and only three of them are even from the show. (Also, what episode was "you're so gay" in? I have absolutely no recollection of that.)

As for the first point, men treat people horribly all the time on tv. If, say, Mickey was a girl, there would probably be a sect of fans who bashed on Micha(ela) for being clingy and insecure and jealous.