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mysticalchild_isis) wrote2010-03-25 03:24 pm
mysticalchild_isis) wrote2010-03-25 03:24 pm
Only Men Are Allowed To Be Perfect
Further Thoughts On Fandom Misogyny
You know, I'm disturbed by how often the male characters who treat people (especially women) like crap are the fandom darlings. They become the woobie who can do no wrong, because he's deep, he has layers, he's had bad things happen to him, he's misunderstood (especially by all those evil female characters). They often have huge communities devoted to them and metric tons of fic describing how wonderful and perfect they are. I'm not trying to criticize people for loving the characters they love. We all have our preferences, and deeply complex characters are interesting, and often feel more real.
What's really bothering me here are the gender politics that go on in fandom, and the double standard between the way female characters are treated versus male characters.
Let's take Tony DiNozzo from NCIS. Yes, I like him too. He is a complex character, he's had some wonderful moments of heroism, and he has struggled with some tough times in his life. But let's be honest: he's rude, he's dismissive, he bullies people, he objectifies women constantly, and he also tends to blame women ("it's always the wife "). Before anyone jumps in to accuse me of misunderstanding poor Tony, let's take a step back and deconstruct things a bit.
Take some time and really, truly, and honestly think about this: if Tony was instead a woman, let's say Tonia, what would you think about her? When she constantly objectified men while simultaneously dismissing and blaming them, how would you feel? When she bullied, belittled, and tormented Tim, would it seem just as funny (because, after all, she really does love Tim like a brother, right)?
There are some people who can truthfully say they'd love Tonia just as much as Tony, because it really is just about what they like about the characterization, regardless of gender. Tonia has probably also gained some brand new fans, who like her because she turns the dominant paradigm on its head- they'd enjoy watching a woman constantly objectifying men, and running roughshod over everyone.
But be honest: how many people would call Tonia a slut, a bitch, a whore, or a harpy? How dare that uppity woman torment poor little Timmy! Who does she think she is?
Let's try an opposite sort of example, and take Rose Tyler from Doctor Who. Rose consistently gets accused of being a Mary Sue, a selfish brat, a chav, and all sorts of other similarly offensive things. Imagine, however (honestly and deeply), if Rose was instead Ryan, played by someone like Bradley James. Let's say we now have a young man who doesn't have much in the way of education, but who pick things up pretty quickly, someone who's compassionate and friendly, and who loves the Doctor deeply. Ryan is suddenly reminding me a lot of a modern version of Jamie McCrimmon. How many people hate on Jamie, or call him a Gary Stu, or accuse him of being selfish for loving the Doctor? Just how many of the people who despise Rose would hate Ryan just as much?
Try taking any female character you dislike, and transforming them into a man... how does this change how you look at them? There are still going to be plenty of characters you dislike, regardless of gender, because they're still a cat hater, or a Yankees fan, or they look just like that math teacher who used to call you stupid. But how much time would you spend bashing them? Do you think there would be whole communities devoted to hating them? Would they be constantly vilified in fanfic?
But what does it matter if we bash female characters? They're only fictional, after all. I'll just say this- I don't think it's a good idea to spend a lot of time disparaging and despising women, even if they aren't real, as that's the sort of thing that can become a habit.
Yes, I'm oversimplifying things, being judgmental, and the people who see this are almost certainly the last people on earth who need to read it, but I had to throw it out there.
Thoughts, critiques, attacks, opinions?
You're very welcome to share this/link to it.
You know, I'm disturbed by how often the male characters who treat people (especially women) like crap are the fandom darlings. They become the woobie who can do no wrong, because he's deep, he has layers, he's had bad things happen to him, he's misunderstood (especially by all those evil female characters). They often have huge communities devoted to them and metric tons of fic describing how wonderful and perfect they are. I'm not trying to criticize people for loving the characters they love. We all have our preferences, and deeply complex characters are interesting, and often feel more real.
What's really bothering me here are the gender politics that go on in fandom, and the double standard between the way female characters are treated versus male characters.
Let's take Tony DiNozzo from NCIS. Yes, I like him too. He is a complex character, he's had some wonderful moments of heroism, and he has struggled with some tough times in his life. But let's be honest: he's rude, he's dismissive, he bullies people, he objectifies women constantly, and he also tends to blame women ("it's always the wife "). Before anyone jumps in to accuse me of misunderstanding poor Tony, let's take a step back and deconstruct things a bit.
Take some time and really, truly, and honestly think about this: if Tony was instead a woman, let's say Tonia, what would you think about her? When she constantly objectified men while simultaneously dismissing and blaming them, how would you feel? When she bullied, belittled, and tormented Tim, would it seem just as funny (because, after all, she really does love Tim like a brother, right)?
There are some people who can truthfully say they'd love Tonia just as much as Tony, because it really is just about what they like about the characterization, regardless of gender. Tonia has probably also gained some brand new fans, who like her because she turns the dominant paradigm on its head- they'd enjoy watching a woman constantly objectifying men, and running roughshod over everyone.
But be honest: how many people would call Tonia a slut, a bitch, a whore, or a harpy? How dare that uppity woman torment poor little Timmy! Who does she think she is?
Let's try an opposite sort of example, and take Rose Tyler from Doctor Who. Rose consistently gets accused of being a Mary Sue, a selfish brat, a chav, and all sorts of other similarly offensive things. Imagine, however (honestly and deeply), if Rose was instead Ryan, played by someone like Bradley James. Let's say we now have a young man who doesn't have much in the way of education, but who pick things up pretty quickly, someone who's compassionate and friendly, and who loves the Doctor deeply. Ryan is suddenly reminding me a lot of a modern version of Jamie McCrimmon. How many people hate on Jamie, or call him a Gary Stu, or accuse him of being selfish for loving the Doctor? Just how many of the people who despise Rose would hate Ryan just as much?
Try taking any female character you dislike, and transforming them into a man... how does this change how you look at them? There are still going to be plenty of characters you dislike, regardless of gender, because they're still a cat hater, or a Yankees fan, or they look just like that math teacher who used to call you stupid. But how much time would you spend bashing them? Do you think there would be whole communities devoted to hating them? Would they be constantly vilified in fanfic?
But what does it matter if we bash female characters? They're only fictional, after all. I'll just say this- I don't think it's a good idea to spend a lot of time disparaging and despising women, even if they aren't real, as that's the sort of thing that can become a habit.
Yes, I'm oversimplifying things, being judgmental, and the people who see this are almost certainly the last people on earth who need to read it, but I had to throw it out there.
Thoughts, critiques, attacks, opinions?
You're very welcome to share this/link to it.
no subject
Another example I can think of (that I don't think has been mentioned here) is Sheldon Cooper from The Big Bang Theory; I find Sheldon endlessly endearing, personally, but I wonder if he would have nearly so many fans if he were a socially inept, asexual, hugely self-important woman who was constantly insulting her friends and prioritizing her own neurotic requirements over the needs of the people around her? Temperance Brennan of Bones is the only female character I can think of who comes remotely close to this characterisation, and she is significantly softened by being a very sexual being and having (sometimes weridly OOC!) emotional moments in most episodes. She fumbles over social cues at times, but she's far less awkward than Sheldon, and yet I rarely hear fangirls squeeing over Bones to the extend that they squee over Sheldon.
Dean Winchester has been mentioned already but Supernatural fandom in general is a major indicator of this phenomenon for me. Countless female characters have been introduced throughout that show's run and most of them have been despised by female fans. Part of that is bad writing and unexamined misogyny on the part of the writers, but I can't help thinking that part of it is female characters being held to an impossibly high standard of behaviour by female fans. Castiel is adored by fangirls and yet he has done, in my opinion, far more ethically questionable things than some of the hated female characters have done, and without much questioning from fans at all.
Comment too long, whoops!
no subject
I wonder if perhaps the problem has good intentions at it's heart; that we are more critical of female characters (who are, let's remember, not real women) because we are wary of being sold inferior, stereotypical characterisations of women by misogynist writers, and we feel the need to fight the slightest hint of that at every turn. I think it's important to be aware of and reject shoddy and sexist characterisation (of both female and male characters), but I do think fans reject female characters on the slightest provocation and accept deeply flawed male characters with a lot of handwaving and excuses about why it is okay to like them.
I have found myself becoming attached to some female characters, like you said, precisely because they turn stereotypes on their heads, taking characteristics we are used to seeing (and accepting) in male characters and applying them to women. I loved Erica Hahn on Grey's Anatomy (although I believe I'm unusual in this) because she was so caustic and aggressive and sure of herself, it was refreshing. I like Cristina for similar reasons; I enjoy having a female character to watch who is ambitious, self-interested and who rejects "feminine" interests like motherhood and displaying her emotions because they just don't interest her. I mean, her character is kind of a horrible person in a lot of ways, but she would be if she were male as well, and I like her anyway. It's also nice that, unlike Hahn, Cristina can be caustic and aggressive and not secretly a lesbian! It shows, to me, that the writers of the show understand lesbianism and particular gendered behaviours aren't necessarily linked; Cristina is a lot like Hahn in her "unfeminine" attitudes and behaviour, but she's straight, because sexuality isn't the defining factor of behaviour for either of them. But that was kind of a tangent, sorry :)
no subject
::nods:: It's a difficult line to walk- I have to wonder if I'm rejecting a female character because of shoddy characterization, or because I'm policing my own sex.