Yeah, I'm not sure why that picture wasn't working, but this did! Thanks. Clearly, he stands like that naturally. So do I, but I started taking ballet lessons when I was three. Interesting, I don't know many guys who stand like that. (I also note that Rose's jeans appear to be quite filthy for some reason!)
On the DVD extras for Revengers Tragedy, Tod Davies talks about the way he's always stalking from one place to another, and she made these darting motions with her hands when she said it. She compared it to the way Eddie Izzard just kind of bopped along, and called them "the black panther and the garden gnome"!
Should have avoided hot-linking, lazy me. This pic is around the scene when they emerge from the bombed 10 Downing Street.
Yeah, rolling and stalking. I love where they show the making of the fight scene, or where he is leaning against some sign or a lamp-post in the background. Well, in any behind-the-scenes, where he's sitting and reading his lines in his own world.
For some reason, I always get a kick out of the behind-the-scenes of the scene outside the "courthouse", and he's got his sunglasses on his bald head. Something about the incongruity. And I love that the angle they're filming the filming of the fight scene shows that he never comes anywhere close to headbutting that kid.
Like it's normal for others, but his character is completely devoid of their deformities, and it affects how it feels off camera? I've always felt they could have gone much heavier, darker - he could manage that. Death and the Compass, perhaps it had a more successful universe. (one more from top five btw)
Fight scene - yes, and you can see how they speak it through beforehand, the kid's safe, but I'm sure CE got at least one kick in the arm.
I've always felt they could have gone much heavier, darker - he could manage that.
Yes, certainly. I don't think there's a "too heavy" for him; he's always had a tremendous emotional centre of gravity, even when he was quite young. That said, he's much better at comedy than people give him credit for, he's just a bit too real for farce. There's too much sincerity and/or emotional vulnerability to just let it fly off. He's got the verbal agility, though.
I love the whole pitch-black comedy aspect of RT ("There's no advantage in the killing of a younger brother!"), and that you never quite know what you're going to get. One of my favourite aspects is that there are so many places the story could have gone — Vindici could have just stayed Lussurioso's henchman-who-was-really-the-boss, if L hadn't gone after Castiza; Castiza and Vindici also have this sweetness that seems to add to the incestuous undertone rather than undercut it - you can see them escaping to someplace à la Jude Fawley and Sue Bridehead (probably with the same tragic ending, but perhaps not). Perhaps Vindici would always have died at Antonio's hands, but if Carlo and Castiza had survived, they would have then carried on the revenge... I really find it a much more interesting play than Hamlet, which has never been one of my favourite Shakespeare plays.
Death and the Compass is a bit of a mess (the editing just fails somewhere along the line), but I love those theatrical "encounters" between Lonrott and Zunz, with the scrims; and the last 10-15 minutes is one of the most beautiful sequences in any film. It reminds me a little of the end of The Keep — the last 15 minutes make no sense whatsoever, but who cares, because it's gorgeous!
Maybe not farce, but satire goes well with him. I don't like when he tries to do the obvious comedy. The feeling I get: 'Yes, I know you can add two and two, I've already seen your astrophysics dissertation'.
Of course, even from the very beginning - what if his brother didn't believe him, didn't recognize him, or first after the guards dealt with him. What if Lussurioso was better at killing and would have eliminated the Duke - same revel would have ensued, without Vindici present. I don't think Castiza and Vindici would have had a future. Yes, their relationship was actually in tone with the rest of society, but the difference is that she was strong, and he would be driven away from home again if he attempted anything - but I believe he would stop himself from incest. Perhaps naively I think how he treated his sister was mostly because he lost the understanding of normal relations and cannot express his feelings otherwise. That's also what enables his revenge - everything's forcefully constructed into a meaningful system which parts don't normally add together. One more what if - if Vindici was the only one left before the final step? Would he still finish the mission? The implicit ambiguity works very well. You don't need philosophical debates to start questioning the essence of the things.
Death and the Compass - I like the editing and the fucked up audio, all the distortions. For me it works because it has the same nervousness and grittiness that prevail the story. The scrims - I couldn't believe my eyes, pure genius - what sane person would use them in a film? All the OTT scenes, different colouring, mystic triangle, Zunz-Gryphius-Red... one hell of a film. Where RT has a certain self-conciousness, DATC is beyond any second thoughts.
Certainly. The blacker the better, really. Which is my taste anyway.
As for Death and the Compass, I have no problem with the local editing (and it's a trip and a half to have a score that's longer than the movie), I just feel like the pacing is a bit off. It seems to sag somewhere around the hour mark. I still think it's fascinating — some of my favourite films are ones that fail in some way, but are nonetheless incredibly interesting. Closet Land and the aforementioned The Keep are two others in that category. And I will give anything points for style, and DATC has style to burn.
The scrims are brilliant, aren't they? And I love the body-language differences in Alonzo Zunz and Red Scharlach. It's a real tour de force, particularly for an actor who was so early in his career. It's very brave.
Pacing - ok, I see. I think though it's a bigger problem in Revengers Tragedy, with the scene at the court and when the Duke's sons visit the jail officials. What's your opinion?
I'll have to check out the films you mentioned.
Thing is, DATC is timeless. You couldn't tell it was made so long ago. And it's quite an achievement (films that are made in a similar fashion usually reflect the period they're made in, even in being the complete opposite).
Agree about the acting skills. While he did become even better, he already had it right there - and it's only his third big screen appearance. I want to believe that more than one director is biting his nails that they didn't get him in some fascinating project back then.
Yes, in that commentary, Cox wondered where did material for that final scene come from. His Red was incredible. How he bent every phrase: Getting distracted at "All roads lead to Rome", then of course "Do you honestly believe that we live more than once?". And how they tackled the voice changes.
I'm still going to say that I think Revengers Tragedy is the better film, however much I like DATC. I think it's better paced (although a bit of tightening in the scenes you suggest would not have gone amiss), the narrative is clearer despite being more complex, and the acting is generally better (Marc Warren and Paul Reynolds excepted). But it's not like I don't love them both!
There's no doubt that Eccleston has always had skill, technique, range, and the rarest thing in young actors, power; what he lacked early on was real control in switching gears. By the time of Shallow Grave, he's better than almost anyone at that, and he hits another level of virtuosity altogether around 2001. I think it's telling that there are so many writers and directors who've worked with him repeatedly over the years. I still don't get Christopher Nolan passing him up twice for younger actors. Other than the obvious shallow.
I cannot really compare the two films from the narrative point of view, because where RT works first of all as a story, DATC is primarily a work. At least that's how I see them. RT allows you to take the same journey as Vindici and you can f. ex. make out separate character arcs, with their tales. DATC reminds of a piece of music - with colour, effect sound, a detail in the picture, camera travelling, etc. being part of the system and meaningless if excluded from it.
Actually I should have said it was his second film - I misplaced Anchoress (in which, accidentally, you can see that staccato change of gears you mention). Perhaps his development was a bit stalled in the nineties, where the best was the television stuff. Shallow Grave and Jude, yes, but then nothing astonishing (A Price Above Rubies probably the best among the weird projects of that period), till there came The Others (plus TV films).
Repeated co-working - it must be mutual. When he is looking for quality, he is pretty harsh. Though I'm still confused over his enjoying the challenge and regretting everything afterwards politics.
Continued: I watched the interview on extras for Our Friends In the North (again, it was Danny Boyle who cast him in it, though didn't direct, like Cox with Let Him Have It), and I got the answers for almost all questions I had on CE and his work. Splendid. Great series, by the way.
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mysticalchild_isis) wrote2008-07-23 12:03 pm
no subject
On the DVD extras for Revengers Tragedy, Tod Davies talks about the way he's always stalking from one place to another, and she made these darting motions with her hands when she said it. She compared it to the way Eddie Izzard just kind of bopped along, and called them "the black panther and the garden gnome"!
no subject
This pic is around the scene when they emerge from the bombed 10 Downing Street.
Yeah, rolling and stalking.
I love where they show the making of the fight scene, or where he is leaning against some sign or a lamp-post in the background.
Well, in any behind-the-scenes, where he's sitting and reading his lines in his own world.
no subject
Revengers is definitely one of my top 3 movies.
no subject
Like it's normal for others, but his character is completely devoid of their deformities, and it affects how it feels off camera?
I've always felt they could have gone much heavier, darker - he could manage that.
Death and the Compass, perhaps it had a more successful universe. (one more from top five btw)
Fight scene - yes, and you can see how they speak it through beforehand, the kid's safe, but I'm sure CE got at least one kick in the arm.
no subject
Yes, certainly. I don't think there's a "too heavy" for him; he's always had a tremendous emotional centre of gravity, even when he was quite young. That said, he's much better at comedy than people give him credit for, he's just a bit too real for farce. There's too much sincerity and/or emotional vulnerability to just let it fly off. He's got the verbal agility, though.
I love the whole pitch-black comedy aspect of RT ("There's no advantage in the killing of a younger brother!"), and that you never quite know what you're going to get. One of my favourite aspects is that there are so many places the story could have gone — Vindici could have just stayed Lussurioso's henchman-who-was-really-the-boss, if L hadn't gone after Castiza; Castiza and Vindici also have this sweetness that seems to add to the incestuous undertone rather than undercut it - you can see them escaping to someplace à la Jude Fawley and Sue Bridehead (probably with the same tragic ending, but perhaps not). Perhaps Vindici would always have died at Antonio's hands, but if Carlo and Castiza had survived, they would have then carried on the revenge... I really find it a much more interesting play than Hamlet, which has never been one of my favourite Shakespeare plays.
Death and the Compass is a bit of a mess (the editing just fails somewhere along the line), but I love those theatrical "encounters" between Lonrott and Zunz, with the scrims; and the last 10-15 minutes is one of the most beautiful sequences in any film. It reminds me a little of the end of The Keep — the last 15 minutes make no sense whatsoever, but who cares, because it's gorgeous!
no subject
Of course, even from the very beginning - what if his brother didn't believe him, didn't recognize him, or first after the guards dealt with him.
What if Lussurioso was better at killing and would have eliminated the Duke - same revel would have ensued, without Vindici present.
I don't think Castiza and Vindici would have had a future. Yes, their relationship was actually in tone with the rest of society, but the difference is that she was strong, and he would be driven away from home again if he attempted anything - but I believe he would stop himself from incest. Perhaps naively I think how he treated his sister was mostly because he lost the understanding of normal relations and cannot express his feelings otherwise. That's also what enables his revenge - everything's forcefully constructed into a meaningful system which parts don't normally add together.
One more what if - if Vindici was the only one left before the final step? Would he still finish the mission?
The implicit ambiguity works very well. You don't need philosophical debates to start questioning the essence of the things.
Death and the Compass - I like the editing and the fucked up audio, all the distortions. For me it works because it has the same nervousness and grittiness that prevail the story. The scrims - I couldn't believe my eyes, pure genius - what sane person would use them in a film? All the OTT scenes, different colouring, mystic triangle, Zunz-Gryphius-Red... one hell of a film. Where RT has a certain self-conciousness, DATC is beyond any second thoughts.
no subject
Certainly. The blacker the better, really. Which is my taste anyway.
As for Death and the Compass, I have no problem with the local editing (and it's a trip and a half to have a score that's longer than the movie), I just feel like the pacing is a bit off. It seems to sag somewhere around the hour mark. I still think it's fascinating — some of my favourite films are ones that fail in some way, but are nonetheless incredibly interesting. Closet Land and the aforementioned The Keep are two others in that category. And I will give anything points for style, and DATC has style to burn.
The scrims are brilliant, aren't they? And I love the body-language differences in Alonzo Zunz and Red Scharlach. It's a real tour de force, particularly for an actor who was so early in his career. It's very brave.
no subject
I'll have to check out the films you mentioned.
Thing is, DATC is timeless. You couldn't tell it was made so long ago. And it's quite an achievement (films that are made in a similar fashion usually reflect the period they're made in, even in being the complete opposite).
Agree about the acting skills. While he did become even better, he already had it right there - and it's only his third big screen appearance. I want to believe that more than one director is biting his nails that they didn't get him in some fascinating project back then.
Yes, in that commentary, Cox wondered where did material for that final scene come from. His Red was incredible. How he bent every phrase: Getting distracted at "All roads lead to Rome", then of course "Do you honestly believe that we live more than once?". And how they tackled the voice changes.
Criminal philanthropists FTW.
no subject
There's no doubt that Eccleston has always had skill, technique, range, and the rarest thing in young actors, power; what he lacked early on was real control in switching gears. By the time of Shallow Grave, he's better than almost anyone at that, and he hits another level of virtuosity altogether around 2001. I think it's telling that there are so many writers and directors who've worked with him repeatedly over the years. I still don't get Christopher Nolan passing him up twice for younger actors. Other than the obvious shallow.
I don't deal well with shallow.
no subject
I cannot really compare the two films from the narrative point of view, because where RT works first of all as a story, DATC is primarily a work. At least that's how I see them. RT allows you to take the same journey as Vindici and you can f. ex. make out separate character arcs, with their tales. DATC reminds of a piece of music - with colour, effect sound, a detail in the picture, camera travelling, etc. being part of the system and meaningless if excluded from it.
Actually I should have said it was his second film - I misplaced Anchoress (in which, accidentally, you can see that staccato change of gears you mention). Perhaps his development was a bit stalled in the nineties, where the best was the television stuff. Shallow Grave and Jude, yes, but then nothing astonishing (A Price Above Rubies probably the best among the weird projects of that period), till there came The Others (plus TV films).
Repeated co-working - it must be mutual. When he is looking for quality, he is pretty harsh. Though I'm still confused over his enjoying the challenge and regretting everything afterwards politics.
no subject